Understanding Senior Living Community Contracts

A live and interactive discussion shares an insiders perspective on the different types of agreements, entry fees and more! 

• Assisted Living 
• Nursing & Rehab Centers 
• Life Plan Communities

 Arvette M. Reid Lifecare Affordability Plan  areid@seia.com 

Arvette M. Reid joined the practice after working for 15 years as a marketing professional in the senior healthcare and housing industry where her tenure spanned a range of independent living, assisted living, nursing care, dementia, and hospice services. Her ability to bring the financial and healthcare worlds together truly makes a powerful impact on how we serve our families who are going through trying times. Arvette's deep commitment to civic engagement and local issues was established as a youth while visiting residents at Goodwin House in her hometown of Alexandria, Virginia. Arvette currently serves as the Board Chair for the Insight Memory Care Center, and she is an active member of Jack and Jill of America, Inc. She has been featured in articles such as 4 Steps to Prepare Aging Parents for Healthy, Happy Lives and What are the first financial steps to take for an aging senior? and How to Handle the Financial Responsibility of Taking Care of Aging Parents.

Questions Asked

• I have LTC for “facilities only” and I’m likely to move to a CCRC.  As additional support is needed in independent living, prior to a move to assisted living being necessary, should LTC cover that, or is independent living considered outside “facilities only”?  If LTC doesn’t cover, that would make the transition from independent to assisted less smooth, unfortunately.
• is it a good idea to have something like Goodwin Living at Home before you go into independent living at a facility?
• Are there specific issues that gay people like myself need to be aware of? Are the some facilities that are more gay friendly than others?
• How long is a short-term nursing rehab stay that would be max covered by healthinsurance/Medicare?
• Can you talk more about refundable fees?
• Does monthly fee stay the same in Real Estate Transaction for higher level of care like a Type A contract?
• Can you direct your refund to a revocable living trust???
• Can you please speak about “involuntary discharge” clauses in assisted living residence contacts?
• Have you heard of communities that have an expiration date on getting a refund. for example, if you are a resident for longer than say 10 years you would not get your money back
• If you have long-term care insurance, which type of contract is best, so you can pay for higher level care with your insurance?
• CCRC contracts can be 80+ pages long. Who do you recommend to review the contracts?
• What about hospice and pallative care? Do they have contracts? How do they work?
• Who do you recommend to review the financials of the CCRC’s?
• We have a friend living in an Erickson community. He chose it partly because they guarantee that if you run out of money, you will not be required to move out. Is this a common policy? Are the monthly fees higher to subsidize those who need it?
• What is refund based on? Cost of first bought in residence?
• in order for Long Term policies to go into effect there are many requirements not only do you have to need help with 2 or more ADL’’s there is usually a number of days you need to be a resident before it kicks in
• Is there a ballpark fee for assistance with placement/search and assistance?  I have no idea what I am doing and I don't have a lot of time.
• You talk about a refund once you die. What about if you choose to move out of the ccrc.  Do you get any or all of your entrance fee back. Under what conditions would you get the refund
• What is the range (dollar amount) people are paying for entrance fees?
• Where do you find bond ratings???
• After narrowing down to 2 or 3 communities, does Arvette provide assistance in comparing the long term expenses of each community?
• Where do you find information re state health inspections?
• BAck to long term care question. Wouldn't it make more sense to get a type c contract since you will have money to help for extra care you may need?
• What are Arvette's fees and how do we contact her?
• How do we get the sourcebook?
• sorry, I asked the  previous question about long term care insurance. wouldn't it make more sense to get a type c contract since you will have money to pay for more help if you need it?

Chat Transcript

12:04:39     From  Lisa Flannery : Hi Everyone! Lisa Flannery from CCRC Carroll Lutheran Village in Westminster. We are a Type C agreement community.  lflannery@clvillage.org / 240-357-1808

12:05:55     From  Megan Rackiewicz : Hey everyone! Megan Rackiewicz from Legacy Lawyers, PLLC - you're estate planning law firm!!! 

571-568-7878 or legacylawyers.org

12:06:18     From  Cynthia M : Hi Everyone!

12:06:41     From  Tom DeMuth : Great Topic - Thank you! Tom DeMuth, Realtor   Evers & Co Real Estate/Long & Foster   tomdemuth.dmv@gmail.com   703-819-9053

12:07:04     From  Morgan Fezza   to   Hosts and panelists : Hey Everyone, Morgan Fezza from The Option Group, Care Manager. Mfezza@theoptiongroup.net

12:07:08     From  Roger Montgomery   to   Hosts and panelists : Hi all

12:08:19     From  Angela Baker : Angela Baker, JD, CFP(R), Realtor(R), Specializing in working with seniors in transition when a home must be sold. 804-814-7772. Angela.baker@exprealty.com.

12:08:20     From  Morgan Fezza : whoops, Meant to send to everyone.

12:08:46     From  Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : From Morgan Fezza to All Panelists 12:07 PM

Hey Everyone, Morgan Fezza from The Option Group, Care Manager. Mfezza@theoptiongroup.net

12:09:09     From  Morgan Fezza   to   Hosts and panelists : Thanks Steve!

12:09:29     From  Michele McLaughlin : Why aren't communities more transparent about their care levels and medication management fees? - Michele at LionHeart

12:10:05     From  Cynthia M : Cynthia McCullough, Goodwin Living At Home, your age in place option. 571-581-4155, cmccullough@goodwinliving.org

12:10:15     From  Bruce Sunderland : The slides need to be enlarged

12:11:08     From  Jan Brito   to   Hosts and panelists : Jan Brito, Capital Senior Solutions, a division of Brito Associates of Compass specializing in helping older adults make late in life move decisions.  Also provide monthly educational (not real estate) seminars on topics of interest to seniors.  301-646-5774.  jan.brito@compass.com.  capitalseniorsolutions.com

12:11:52     From  Emma Stokes   to   Hosts and panelists : Will we be able to access these slides?

12:12:06     From  Michele McLaughlin : Is the CCRC model on the decline? Do older adults now prefer month-to-month communities?

12:13:08     From  Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : From Jan Brito to All Panelists 12:11 PM

Jan Brito, Capital Senior Solutions, a division of Brito Associates of Compass specializing in helping older adults make late in life move decisions.  Also provide monthly educational (not real estate) seminars on topics of interest to seniors.  301-646-5774.  jan.brito@compass.com.  capitalseniorsolutions.com

12:13:42     From  Steve Gurney - ProAging Community   to   Emma Stokes and all panelists : yes we will post at https://www.retirementlivingsourcebook.com/ with recording and chat

12:14:03     From  Ken Silverstein : Good Afternoon Everyone--Ken Silverstein, Friends Club, a social program for men with dementia.  Feel free to contact me to learn more about our organization.  ken@friendsclubbethesda.org, 301-469-0070.

12:15:13     From  Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : Genworth Cost of Care Survey https://www.genworth.com/aging-and-you/finances/cost-of-care.html

12:16:39     From  Chardae Perry : Chardae Perry with Guided By His Hands Senior Placement. GuidedByHisHands.com 443-650-8765

12:17:15     From  Alice FISHER   to   Hosts and panelists : Will you differentiate between non-profit and for-profit?

12:20:21     From  Joan Rubin-Kritz : Medicaid is not paying for short term rehab in a SNF.

12:20:22     From  Kristen Eichleay   to   Hosts and panelists : I was told not long ago that the 3 days hospital stay has been waived because of covid.

12:20:28     From  steve jefferys : One rule of thumb, have about $300K dedicated to long term care expenses.

Steve Jefferys

Arch Financial Advisors

Elder Care Planning Specialist

Fee-only Financial Planner

www.archfinancialadvisors.com

301-500-2079

12:21:01     From  Kristen Eichleay   to   Hosts and panelists : I could have been transferred to rehab from the hospital immediately but I had complicating issues.

12:22:41     From  Joan Rubin-Kritz : Most CCRCs I know have skilled nursing units as well.

12:22:56     From  Morris Klein : Medicare pays 100% for 20 days, then there is a co-pay for an additional 80 days.  Many people get kicked off of  Medicare  before the full 100 days have elapsed.

12:26:43     From  Pam Mendelson : how do I find a lifeplan community for unhoused seniors in DC (or VA, if that's your known area)?

12:32:06     From  Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : @pam mendelson and all - you can order a Positive Aging Sourcebook at this link for a complete listing of all life plan communities https://www.retirementlivingsourcebook.com/digital

12:33:33     From  Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : Here is a link to details on the 3 day waiver https://www.cms.gov/medicare/medicare-fee-for-service-payment/sharedsavingsprogram/downloads/snf-waiver-guidance.pdf

12:34:19     From  Steve Gurney - ProAging Community   to   Kristen Eichleay and all panelists : Here is a link to details on the 3 day waiver https://www.cms.gov/medicare/medicare-fee-for-service-payment/sharedsavingsprogram/downloads/snf-waiver-guidance.pdf

12:34:34     From  Barbara Ryan : if you have long term care insurance, should you get a type c contract

12:34:58     From  Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : Aging Life Care management, is a holistic, client-centered approach to caring for older adults or others facing ongoing health challenges. Working with families, the expertise of Aging Life Care Professionals provides the answers at a time of uncertainty. https://www.aginglifecare.org/

12:35:37     From  Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : Our mission is to empower your decision-making. We will help you understand your options, explore your hopes and fears for the future and develop a Lifecare Affordability Plan (LCAP™️) based on your unique circumstances. So you can imagine the best future for you and your loved ones. https://lifecareaffordability.com/

12:36:13     From  John Hinkle : I have been a Long Term Care insurance agent since 1987! Several hundred policies in force, over 100 on claim. Most of you know me.  John Hinkle Financial Services, 703.691.1600, jhinkle@GoLombard.com

12:36:27     From  Gail Crockett : Can she put her contact info back on or in the chat please. Went too quick.

12:37:06     From  Nadine McLachlan : Financial  stability of community providers -- how can this be checked?

12:37:49     From  Jennifer Late : Arvette M. Reid can be contacted at areid@seia.com or 703-940-3485

12:38:05     From  Kim Karlinchak : Make sure you read Greensprings! And keep your refund info up to date!!! My mom recently died, she had a Trust that was drawn up AFTER we had signed the contract (which we checked pay to the estate...) We didn't even think to look/update the contract. Her refund has to go through Probate now since we did not update the contract. And there is a clause also that they can charge for up to three months after moving out.... we signed that contract but it didn't mean much when signing (so much in the contract), not until you are moving out!  Just pay attention to the contracts and look at it periodically.

12:38:43     From  Nadine McLachlan : State inspection of facility -- where can this be checked?

12:38:45     From  Marilyn Gordon   to   Hosts and panelists : Is anyone in NYC?

12:40:07     From  Joy Loverde : Good to know about your social program for men who are living with the symptoms of dementia, Ken Silverstein. Thank you for sharing your contact information.

12:40:59     From  Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : https://goodwinliving.org/

12:41:40     From  Cynthia M : Goodwin Living at Home, 571-581-4155 ask for Cynthia McCullough

12:42:02     From  Jessica Novello   to   Hosts and panelists : I work for a continuing care at home program in Baltimore. The at home life care plan model is newer and complex. It differs greatly by State regulations and we are good at explaining the model and the regulations!

12:42:10     From  George Phillips : Ballpark costs for working with a planner/consultant for assisting with selection for a parent?  My Dad is 92 and is currently living on his own, but it is not really feasible (3 falls in 3 years).

12:42:24     From  Mary Goettelmann   to   Hosts and panelists : Is Goodwin Living At Home only available in Virginia

12:42:57     From  Mimi Leinbach : Pathstones by Phoebe at Home program

12:43:09     From  Mimi Leinbach : https://pathstonesbyphoebe.org/

12:43:21     From  Mimi Leinbach : 610-794-6700

12:43:24     From  Jennifer Late : Aging Rainbows

12:43:48     From  Jessica Novello   to   Hosts and panelists : Www.thewesleyathome.org. An at-home life care plan in Baltimore County and City. Office- 410-324-2400.

12:43:59     From  Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : From Jessica Novello to All Panelists 12:43 PM

Www.thewesleyathome.org. An at-home life care plan in Baltimore County and City. Office- 410-324-2400.

12:44:14     From  Jennifer Brown : Jennifer Brown - 202-364-0020 - jmbrown@seaburyresources.org  - Seabury Care Management

12:44:27     From  Joan Rubin-Kritz : Check to see if the community or facility is SAGE certified. They educate and train staff on sensitivity to LGBTQ individuals.

12:44:51     From  Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : our discussion on Continuing Care at Home https://www.retirementlivingsourcebook.com/videos/continuing-care-at-home

12:45:19     From  Jan Brito   to   Hosts and panelists : Jennifer - what was the name of the Rainbow org?  Forgot the second word

12:45:36     From  JoAnn Lynn   to   Hosts and panelists : Are chats from a session available if we listen to a recording?

12:46:34     From  Jennifer Brown : https://www.sageusa.org/     SAGE stands proudly with the LGBTQ+ pioneers across the country who’ve been fighting for decades for their right to live with dignity and respect.

12:47:22     From  Irene Hantman   to   Hosts and panelists : How can I print out chat?

12:47:57     From  Linda Arret   to   Hosts and panelists : Arvette, what is your time allowed and fee, for an initial consult with you?

12:48:15     From  Steve Gurney - ProAging Community   to   Irene Hantman and all panelists : chat will be copied at the link with our recording this afternoon https://www.retirementlivingsourcebook.com/

12:48:28     From  Sheila Carpenter : I know there are variances but what is a range of the amount people are paying for entrance fees these days?

12:48:46     From  Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : Just a reminder to everyone this is recorded at chat will be at the link too so visit https://www.retirementlivingsourcebook.com/ this afternoon!

12:49:05     From  Michael Yublosky : Technology Education Classes and Fun Filled Trivia Entertainment for Boomers and Older Adults

https://abncparties.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaellyublosky/

michael.yublosky@gmail.com

847.634.6535

12:49:09     From  Patti Hutton : Good afternoon, Patti Hutton with Residences at Vantage Point, a Life Plan Community in Columbia, Maryland. We offer both Type A and Type C contract options as well as 85%, 50% and fully declining refund entry fee options. We are SAGE Care certified and are a diverse and inclusive community.  www.vantagepointresidences.org or 410.992.1075

12:49:38     From  Susan Albert : Arvette- You are SO knowledgeable!!!!! Thank you so much for your presentation today!

12:49:46     From  Joan Rubin-Kritz : In the current political climate, probably not a good idea to count on social security!

12:50:24     From  JoAnn Lynn : Thank you! Wonderful presentation. Wish it could continue another hour.

12:51:26     From  Bruce Sunderland : in facility where you buy an apartment, does your estate get the full value of the subsequent sale of your apartment.

12:53:13     From  Angela Baker : Contracts of adhesion...No flexibility

12:54:28     From  Megan Rackiewicz : Bruce Sunderland, we'd be happy to assist you with that question. Please give us a call at Legacy Lawyers at 571-568-7878

12:56:15     From  Barbara W   to   Hosts and panelists : ­Thank you.  Very wonderful info to get and great presentation

12:57:11     From  Patti Hutton : Depending on the state, Life Plan contracts are regulated by the state. MD Department of Aging regulates Life Plan communities in Maryland. There are very specific guidelines to what contracts can say.

12:57:56     From  Michele McLaughlin : Families do not know about care levels,  medication management or incontinence fees. They just look at the monthly rent.

12:58:02     From  Barbara Ryan : Back to the question of long term care insurance- wouldn't it make sense to get type c contract (less money) if you have LTC insurance to help pay for more care.

12:58:40     From  Morris Klein : There may be some  items in the contract that can be negotiated with the facility.

13:00:29     From  Barbara Ryan : Are there medical requirements to be eligible to move into independent living

13:01:59     From  Kristen Eichleay : Is it true that you can’t write off AL costs as medical expenses on your taxes if you’re only there for room and board?

13:04:08     From  Jan Brito   to   Hosts and panelists : Seminar on 11/16 at 11a.m. at Lakewood Country Club in Rockville.  “The Truth About Communicating with Adult Children”.  Seminar is free and complimentary valet parking will be provided. Register at capitalseniorsolutions.com

13:04:31     From  Mary Ann Anderson : I've heard of professionals called senior managers that can help you for free because they are paid by the senior living communities. They can accompany you to tour facilities, help you ask questions. I haven't done this so this isn't a recommendation just FYI. One national network is Oasis. https://www.oasissenioradvisors.com/fairfax-loudoun/

13:07:08     From  Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : From Jan Brito to All Panelists 01:04 PM

Seminar on 11/16 at 11a.m. at Lakewood Country Club in Rockville.  “The Truth About Communicating with Adult Children”.  Seminar is free and complimentary valet parking will be provided. Register at capitalseniorsolutions.com

13:08:04     From  Jennifer Late : Arvette Reid can be contacted at areid@seia.com or 703-940-3485 at Lifecare Affordability Plan.

13:08:44     From  Megan Rackiewicz : Thank you so much for this seminar. It was excellent and so helpful!!!! I'm excited for more seminars in the future!!!

13:08:46     From  Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : Health inspections for nursing homes https://www.medicare.gov/care-compare/resources/nursing-home/health-inspections/

13:09:31     From  Sue Christopher : This is one of the best seminars you've hosted!  Thanks so much.

13:10:11     From  George Phillips : Incredibly helpful and I really appreciate the information.

13:10:56     From  Angela Baker : This has been very well done and informative! Thank you both very much.

13:11:17     From  Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : For bond ratings - check Moody's Duff & Phelps, Standard & Poors, Fitch, Weiss, A.M. Best are the Rating Services.   John Hinkle Financial Services, Selling LTC insurance since 1987!

13:11:44     From  Marilyn Gordon   to   Hosts and panelists : Does Arvette recommend anyone in NYC?

13:12:12     From  Jan Brito   to   Hosts and panelists : Excellent info!  Thanks Arvette and Steve

13:13:06     From  Sheila Carpenter : thank you  very helpful

13:13:07     From  Marilyn Gordon   to   Hosts and panelists : Brava, Arvette.

13:13:33     From  Sherry Martin   to   Hosts and panelists : I learned so much today!  Would love to hear more from Arvette!  Thank you all!

13:13:35     From  mindy mitchell : This was great!!

13:14:00     From  Anne Ritchey : Thank yu so much for this!