Achieving a Good Death: A Practical Guide to the End of Life

a live & interactive discussion with Chris Palmer the author of Author of Achieving a Good Death: A Practical Guide to the End of Life and death and dying reformer With the multiple options available at the end of life, people can design and direct their end-of-life journey so they have as fulfilling and meaningful life as possible right up to the end and achieve the elusive good death when the time comes

https://chrispalmeronline.com/

Link to order book

Questions Asked

• “Tell me what were your most joyful moments in life “….a  recent conversation / distraction for a dying patient, while waiting for the next dose of morphine / extreme pain was evident and I needed to get her mind into a better place.
• I wonder if you have done any research in approaching this conversation with different cultures?
• What would you suggest doing if you have tried to talk about this with your aging mother and she just refuses to talk about it - and gets angry just for posing the question?
• One of the deaths that Chris has experienced lately is that of his twin brother.  Is there anything special all of us can learn from that particular experience?
• So much of this good advice assumes that society will afford the family space and time. Children possessing freedom/control for this sacred end of life event  assumes they can turn off life's distractions. How are we going to do this? Can we change society?
• For people with dementia and wanting a death with dignity, what are your thoughts on this route in Switzerland, like Pegasas or Dignitas - dementia is a big Spoiler!
• Chris, Would you please let us know again the name of the site that advises how to craft a dementia coda?Chris...thanks so much.. where are you donating your book proceeds to again?
• Does the book reference Medical Orders for Life-Sustaining Treatments (MOLST) and distinguish it from Advanced Direcetives?
  
  

LinkedIn Live Comments

David MacMahan

FairSplit.com - FREE Online, List, Share & Divide Assets, + Upgrades for Dividing Estates, Divorce & Downsizing Online

And when it is talked about well ahead of time, but not legally documented or even maybe video taped for other family members the medical power of attorney may get very ugly and angry objections from other family members that don't believe it was Mom's wishes to end life, or they may object to it due to their beliefs.

This came up twice in the past week with a trust settlement of personal property we are doing. If it isn't in the will or letter of instruction, it isn't real. Family members definitely were told they could have certain things, but it was never formalized and other heirs refused to accept if not in the legal documents.

Saleem Shah

It's really a great topic, a difficult thought and conversation, though, but a necessary one.

Joanne Paskins

great topic thanks for sharing some of these points. I think this should be discussed with caregiver that do this a job. They also need to know the families wishes. I find so many people are afraid to talk about it.

Chat Transcript

12:09:13     From Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : Hardback 

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Achieving a Good Death

A Practical Guide to the End of Life https://rowman.com/ISBN/9781475850512/Achieving-a-Good-Death-A-Practical-Guide-to-the-End-of-Life

12:09:44     From Ronelle Genser : Ronnie Genser, www.BereavementNavigators.com

12:10:30     From memella Drake : hi everyone, from CCHA in Baltimore. Rosmelia Drake

12:10:45     From Christine Smith : Happy to greet you all! Aging Better Network.com/LIVE to meet Longevity Leadership & listen in on their conversations

12:10:52     From Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : Achieving a Good Death: A Practical Guide to the End of Life https://a.co/d/3JjnDn6

12:15:26     From Nacho Moreno : Hi everyone from www.soalma.com. Ignacio Moreno. BIG THANK YOU to Steve Gurney - Proaging and amazing Chris Palmer. Incredible how much GOOD you do with your initiatives!

12:17:39     From Diane Ullius  to  Hosts and panelists : Can other people see these pages? I'm just getting black screen, although the views of faces are fine.

12:17:48     From Ann Zabaldo  to  Hosts and panelists : ANN ZABALDO

12:18:36     From Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : From Diane Ullius to All Panelists 12:17 PM

Can other people see these pages? I'm just getting black screen, although the views of faces are fine.

12:20:07     From Gary Wederspahn : A Good Resource for exploring various aspects of a "Good Death" Is https://www.thegooddeathsocietyblog.net/

12:20:58     From Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : End of Life On-Demand Recordings https://www.retirementlivingsourcebook.com/videos?q=end of life

12:22:29     From Ilene Gruber  to  Hosts and panelists : Death is human. The best gift we can give to our families is an advance directive.  When things are so emotional and can be shocking to have to guess and make decisions about what someone else may or may not want can be traumatic; but to hand over a document allows your loved ones to just be present with you.

12:22:34     From walter fanburg  to  Hosts and panelists : I would like to ask Chris how his dealing with the mechanics related to the end of life issues has had an effect on his own “fear of death”. My personal view is much of what we all do every day is a way avoiding dealing with the concern about our own mortality. Walter Fanburg - Arbor Place Dementia Care - Walter.fanburg@gmail.com

12:22:47     From Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : Let's Talk About Death (Over Dinner) + Death Cafe https://www.retirementlivingsourcebook.com/videos/let-s-talk-about-death-over-dinner-death-cafe

12:24:26     From Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : From walter fanburg to All Panelists 12:22 PM

I would like to ask Chris how his dealing with the mechanics related to the end of life issues has had an effect on his own “fear of death”. My personal view is much of what we all do every day is a way avoiding dealing with the concern about our own mortality. Walter Fanburg - Arbor Place Dementia Care - Walter.fanburg@gmail.com

12:25:34     From Adele Logan-Galen : I am not scared of death, but rather the 30 minutes before death.  If I am awake, I will probably get angry at myself for worrying about things that really didn't matter!

12:26:02     From Jennifer Gerynowicz  to  Hosts and panelists : I am not afraid of dying because I believe in eternal life. Does your book cover this for people who can die with hope?

12:29:38     From dixcy bosley  to  Hosts and panelists : Thanks for Kudos...

12:30:04     From Jose Ramos : So much of this good advice assumes that society will afford the family space and time. Children possessing freedom/control for this sacred end of life event  assumes they can turn off life's distractions. How are we going to do this? Can we change society?

12:30:31     From walter fanburg  to  Hosts and panelists : I recommend that all on this webinar take a look at a book “This Is the Moment” by Walter Green. Look up his TEDX talk. He has started a whole movement - the gist being to write out the things you wish to say to people while they are alive rather than waiting to say the words at the eulogy. I have been talking to my friends about this and received such a written note from a close friend today. It is very meaningful. Don’t wait for the eulogy to tell people what contribution they have made to your life. Walter Fanburg

12:31:30     From Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : Nacho Moreno 12:28 PM 

What would you suggest doing if you have tried to talk about this with your aging mother and she just refuses to talk about it - and gets angry just for posing the question?

12:31:35     From Ann Zabaldo  to  Hosts and panelists : Ann Zabaldo, Mid Atlantic Cohousing. We create caring communities where have the space for conversations to happen.   A little off topic What is the role of the larger community.  Not just the neighbors but the larger municipality eg laws, politics.  annzabaldo@me.com

12:31:42     From dixcy bosley  to  Hosts and panelists : Chris…we all know that doctors never bring up prognosis especially a poor one.   We need to ask them. “Would you imagine I could be dead in 6  -  12 months.??? “ “ What as my doctor have you not given me an option to get better comfort care at home?”  “ What would you recommend for your mother?”

12:31:53     From Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : From Ann Zabaldo to All Panelists 12:31 PM

Ann Zabaldo, Mid Atlantic Cohousing. We create caring communities where have the space for conversations to happen.   A little off topic What is the role of the larger community.  Not just the neighbors but the larger municipality eg laws, politics.  annzabaldo@me.com

12:32:35     From memella Drake : Death has different approaches in the different cultures.

12:32:50     From Glenn Harper : Great suggestion, Chris!

12:35:21     From Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : Jose Ramos 12:30 PM 

So much of this good advice assumes that society will afford the family space and time. Children possessing freedom/control for this sacred end of life event  assumes they can turn off life's distractions. How are we going to do this? Can we change society?

12:35:50     From susan farkas : I am not afraid of dying, but of pain and suffering. How can pain and suffering called a “good death”? How can one avoid pain and suffering? We help pets to die without suffering but we cannot do the same for ourselves.

12:36:06     From memella Drake : It is difficult to talk about death in Latin families. This is a no,no. Parents believe you want them dead.  There is now way or how to start this conversation.

12:37:19     From Margie L  to  Hosts and panelists : I think Chris is aces. ? Is there a way to get this book other than through Amazon and other than online? Thanks

12:37:19     From Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : The Anxious Generation: How the Great Rewiring of Childhood Is Causing an Epidemic of Mental Illness https://a.co/d/45ZEBGD

12:37:30     From Michaela Cassidy : My niece celebrates the birthdays of her deceased parent with a special dinner.  What kid doesn't like ice cream and cake!  It allows and celebrates death as a part of life.

12:37:55     From Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : Anonymous Attendee 12:35 PM 

For people with dementia and wanting a death with dignity, what are your thoughts on this route in Switzerland, like Pegasas or Dignitas - dementia is a big Spoiler!

12:38:44     From walter fanburg  to  Hosts and panelists : Please move my last comment from just the host and share it with the whole group watching. thx

12:38:45     From Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : Dementia Man, An Existential Journey: Performance and Discussion 05/15/2024 1:30 pm https://www.retirementlivingsourcebook.com/events/dementia-man-an-existential-journey-performance-and-discussion

12:38:50     From Carla Gardner : I agree with all that Chris is saying.  My mother had a Good Death during Covid 19.  she had 3 family members at her bedside and a host of others on zoom.  When her breathing tube was removed, she was able to mouth the words THANK YOU.  She died saying thank you.  I think we grieved better due to experiencing her GOOD DEATH.

12:40:02     From Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : Advance Directives for Dementia 07/11/2024 12:00 pm https://www.retirementlivingsourcebook.com/events/advance-directives-for-dementia

12:40:11     From Lisa W.  to  Hosts and panelists : Finalexitnetwork.org

12:40:19     From Margie L : So glad for your family, Carla

12:41:16     From Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : In Love: A Memoir of Love and Loss by Amy Bloom https://a.co/d/5XAp0QA

12:41:30     From Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : Anonymous Attendee 12:35 PM 

For people with dementia and wanting a death with dignity, what are your thoughts on this route in Switzerland, like Pegasas or Dignitas - dementia is a big Spoiler!

12:41:32     From Carla Gardner : Thanks Margie.  Because of her I practice gratitude everyday.

12:41:56     From Margie L : I do a gratitude calendar daily and teach a gratitude class periodically

12:42:35     From dixcy bosley  to  Hosts and panelists : We need to ask our doctors in DC if they would be willing to write the MAID prescription b/c right now  DC only has  one prescribing doctor and only one pharmacy to fill it.   Accessing the law is harder than passing it.

12:42:58     From Margie L : Chris is aces, as was the Dowager in Downton Abbey ?. I'd love the book through some other avenue than Amazon or online

12:42:59     From Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : From Lisa W. to All Panelists 12:40 PM

Finalexitnetwork.org

12:44:50     From Gary Wederspahn  to  Hosts and panelists : Do you support the right of people to know about ALL options for a Good Death?

12:44:54     From Adele Logan-Galen : Senior move managers can gently help with clean out of homes.

12:45:14     From Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : Achieving a Good Death: A Practical Guide to the End of Life https://a.co/d/4hTTZYV

12:46:01     From Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : https://chrispalmeronline.com/

12:46:57     From Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : Ethical will https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethical_will

12:46:57     From Ellen Deemer-White : Margie, The book is also at Barnes and Noble

12:47:26     From Gary Wederspahn  to  Hosts and panelists : Final Exit Network has an Advance Directive for dementia that comes with free legal support if the patient's wishes are not honored.

12:47:38     From Margie L : thanks, Ellen! I have an ancient account with them ?

12:47:55     From Nacho Moreno : Legacy letters are so important and fulfilling for the survivors!!!!

12:48:24     From Margie L : I also recommend Chris' online classes or groups when available. He is always this enthusiastic, expert, and compassionate.

12:48:34     From Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : Linda Smibert 12:47 PM 

Chris...thanks so much.. where are you donating your book proceeds to again?

12:49:22     From Vivian Ling : Legacy letters, ethical wills, are standard in Chinese culture. They are called "family precepts" 家训, These are mandatory, whereas wills relevant to inheriting materials stuff is optional.

12:51:03     From Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : WHAT IS AN END-OF-LIFE DOULA? https://inelda.org/about-doulas/what-is-a-doula/

12:52:33     From Erika Salas : Hi everyone, Erika Salas here and EOL Doula in Fairfax, VA. We support the non-physical needs of dying people and their loved ones. I am also a grief educator. Great presentation today, thank you!

12:53:49     From Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : Greening Your Goodbye: Are you curious about eco-friendly funeral and burial choices? https://www.retirementlivingsourcebook.com/videos/greening-your-goodbye-are-you-curious-about-eco-friendly-funeral-and-burial-choices

12:53:58     From Adele Logan-Galen : Erika: please put in your contact info.  Adele

12:54:47     From Christine Smith : Watching & grateful for this discussion from Independence, Oregon: Is there a standard training course [certification] for End of Life Doulas? How would people in hospice find that sort of doula?

12:55:06     From Ruth Spencer : Back in 2013, I was the only sibling that was not married.  My 4 children were out of the house.  M mother was diagnosed and given 6 months to live.  I was volunteered to move in with her and be her full-time caregiver.  Needless to say, after she died 6 months later, I lost my relationship with my partner, so no home, no one would hire me, so no job.  It changed my entire life (not in a good way).  Due to this, I believe my kids don't want that to happen to them when I get closer to death.

12:55:09     From Erika Salas : My email is SimplyIntentionalEOL@gmail.com for more information, thank you Adele.

12:56:18     From Adele Logan-Galen : Erika: I'll contact you.  Adele

12:56:49     From Eileen Roehr  to  Hosts and panelists : Great Presentation. Eileen

12:58:10     From Adele Logan-Galen : WHy do the daughters always get dumped on?

12:58:16     From Nacho Moreno : We are as responsible for our children when we bring them to the world as we are for our parents when they need us!

12:58:27     From MICHAEL PATTERSON  to  Hosts and panelists : Chris: Do you have a model for strategic plans for family care for a dying loved one?

12:58:44     From Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : International End of Life Doula Association https://inelda.org/

12:59:04     From R H  to  Hosts and panelists : I know someone that hasn’t worked for four years due to taking care of aging parents and an ailing brother.

12:59:14     From Gelareh Bassiry : This is a great service @positiveAging, thank you?

12:59:31     From memella Drake : thank you very much for all the information I have learned from your webinar.  This was not a regular END of LIFE webinar.

12:59:38     From walter fanburg  to  Hosts and panelists : Steve - how many people on this?

12:59:59     From Erika Salas : Agreed!

13:01:35     From Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : From Gary Wederspahn to All Panelists 12:47 PM

Final Exit Network has an Advance Directive for dementia that comes with free legal support if the patient's wishes are not honored.

13:01:39     From Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : From dixcy bosley to All Panelists 12:42 PM

We need to ask our doctors in DC if they would be willing to write the MAID prescription b/c right now  DC only has  one prescribing doctor and only one pharmacy to fill it.   Accessing the law is harder than passing it.

13:01:57     From Christine Smith : #1000thanks to both Steve & Chris for writing & hosting on this emotionally charged, personally paramount fact of life!

13:02:00     From Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : From Ilene Gruber to All Panelists 12:22 PM

Death is human. The best gift we can give to our families is an advance directive.  When things are so emotional and can be shocking to have to guess and make decisions about what someone else may or may not want can be traumatic; but to hand over a document allows your loved ones to just be present with you.

13:02:20     From walter fanburg : You will find “This is the Moment” by Walter Green of interest. Also can see his presentation one TEDX. Gist is celebrate life in writing or in person - while they are alive, rather than wait for the eulogy. Very meaningful.

13:02:34     From Shela Turpin-Forster  to  Hosts and panelists : Wonderful program. Thank you so much.

13:03:30     From Ann Zabaldo  to  Hosts and panelists : Thank you!  Live a happy life and have a good death too!

13:03:50     From Bernie Cohen : Highly illuminating... Danka..

13:04:12     From MICHAEL PATTERSON  to  Hosts and panelists : To get more family members involved in an organized way.

13:04:22     From R H  to  Hosts and panelists : To be fair the person that I know that hasn’t worked in four years is a man.

13:04:33     From Diane Ullius : A very good session this time. Thank you!

13:05:20     From Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : https://chrispalmeronline.com/

13:06:00     From Christine Smith : Caregivers re-entering the work force: include everything you've accomplished and managed during caregiving [professionally worded] in your resume when back on the job hunt

13:06:19     From Steve Kaffen : Enlightening discussion. Thank you, Chris.

13:06:20     From Lisa W.  to  Hosts and panelists : Health Proxy can be a “patient advocate” who is M.D./nurse/geriatric care manager.

13:06:22     From Elizabeth Singleton : I am a daughter and the oldest, and I have seen what Chris is saying all too often.  This has been a wonderful session, and thank you, Chris and Steve, for this great opportunity!

13:06:24     From R H  to  Hosts and panelists : I also know another man in the DMV that travelled to New Mexico to take care of his parents for two years.

13:07:14     From dixcy bosley : Buy the book for your kids, parents and doctors

13:07:14     From Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : Why we should eulogize the living | Walter Green | TEDxSanDiego https://youtu.be/eCGd7ya7sUw?si=xXDaLP69ITFjka88

13:07:36     From Laurie Calhoun  to  Hosts and panelists : Thank you so much for all your work Chris. Very helpful.

13:07:40     From Vivian Sheliga : OUTSTANDING seminar, so meaningful, great resources!!!  Cant wait to get Chris' book! Vivian Sheliga

13:07:40     From R H  to  Hosts and panelists : Thanks for having this interesting and important discussion Chris and Steve! So much appreciated!

13:07:45     From Mary Quigley : Thank you for a great informative session. Truly appreciate your time and expertise.

13:07:49     From Ann Zabaldo  to  Hosts and panelists : I ordered it!

13:08:08     From Nacho Moreno : Wonderful session. THANK YOU again. We can all push to make end of life as enjoyable a stage in life as any other!!!

13:08:14     From Marsha Komandt : As with Elizabeth above, same here, also a retired oncology nurse who had classes with Inova’s Life with Cancer on Planning for End of Life (still being held!). What a wonderful session this has been today.  Thank you!

13:08:50     From Susan Goda  to  Hosts and panelists : Wonderful!  Chris is amazing - can’t wait to get his book!  Thank you

13:08:58     From Carol Ragsdale : Thanks so  much.  Will order Chris's book.

13:09:15     From Steve Gurney - ProAging Community : Mike DeSarno 01:05 PM 

Does the book reference Medical Orders for Life-Sustaining Treatments (MOLST) and distinguish it from Advanced Direcetives?

13:09:54     From Deb Merriner : Thanks for all this good info!

13:09:55     From Tracy Bland : Awesome, Thank you!

13:10:09     From Ann Zabaldo  to  Hosts and panelists : ?

13:10:22     From Susan Goda  to  Hosts and panelists : How do we find the recording?

13:10:26     From Mike DeSarno : Thank you!!